Hold Your Fire Appreciation Thread

[Grace :)]

Of all the Rush albums I've listened to, I don't think I've seen one more divided on people's opinions than Hold Your Fire. I know this album gets a bad rap for some of its filler songs, but I can't help but love the rest of the songs..

Force Ten (4th Favorite) - A few months ago, I started binge-listening to this song. I cannot believe I didn't listen to this song more. The whole theme of storms and the integration of "time" within them really works out here. Musically, this song shows you that Rush is NOT messing around with the "Hold Your Fire music tone". I consider myself blessed to have seen this song live in all of its glory on the Clockwork Angels Tour (sadly without the Tama drum kit and the Wal MK1 bass guitar).

Time Stand Still (7th favorite) - I used to not like this song as a child, but I realize how wrong I was in retrospect. This song is quite bittersweet in its message of our wish for time to stop and our desire to live in the past. This is one song that I cannot ignore anymore. While it isn't my favorite on the album (due to my love for the other songs more), I still deeply love it.

Open Secrets (5th favorite) - When I first heard this song, it honestly sounded like it could have fit onto Power Windows with little modification. And since I love Power Windows, this song gets a big thumbs-up from me. The guitar is much more prevalent here than on the rest of the album (aside from Force Ten & Lock and Key). I also really love the usage of the drums here, being the first "real" introduction to the drum-style of Hold Your Fire.

Second Nature (10th favorite) - I just cannot listen to this song without being bored in the first minute. I am sure there are others out there that really like this song but I find its slow pace just dreadful as compared to the faster, more meaningful (to me) songs like Force Ten or Turn the Page. However, I really want to try and enjoy this song, so if anyone really enjoys this song, please let me know and give me some reasons why you listen to it and/or enjoy it. EDIT: Since writing this, I have listened to this song more and have grown on it. However, I still don't care for this song as much as some of the others. However, this post did fulfill my goal of appreciating this album, more-so than before.

Prime Mover (3rd Favorite) - Since when did this masterpiece exist? I remember skipping this song on Hold Your Fire when I was little, not being dragged in by the first few notes. I had really awful opinions as a child. This song really should have been brought out again after the Hold Your Fire tour. I can't see why anyone would hate this song. The Guitar and Bass are much more prevalent in this song than the Synthesizers that are falsely associated with the entirety of this album. I also like the theme of the song: "Anything can happen", with the message of moving forward. This is just a really good song. To those who have never listened to it, please do so. You will not regret it.

Lock and Key (6th favorite) - Now here is a song that has a very deceptive opening to it. It lures you into thinking its another song like Tai Shan, but then throws in one of Alex's best guitar work from the late 80s, reminding us of the intricacy that was present on Grace Under Pressure. I know I probably like this song too much, but I just can't help it. Songs like this have the tendency to just grab me. If you are on the border of whether or not to listen to this one, just do it. It's Rush.

Mission (2nd Favorite) - I had trouble with ranking this song amongst all the others on this album. This song really is a masterpiece that should be treasured and respected. It appears that Rush themselves realized this, as they brought it back on the Snakes and Arrows Tour. I used to not really care for this song, but its usage of the synthesizers along with the instrumental in the middle of the song just drive this one home for me.

Turn the Page (Favorite off the album) - Unlike Grace Under Pressure, this album was hard to choose a favorite song off of. At least for the moment, this song has managed to become my favorite on the album. From the song's intro portion with the famous Wal MK1 Bass to the integration of those sweet Tama drums, this song really focuses on Geddy and Neil, expressing each of their instruments perfectly. Also, this song would NOT be the same without the synthesizers driving the entire song a minute or so into the song. I cannot imagine what it would be like to play the Bass Guitar, play keyboard, and sing at nearly the same time on this song in particular. I really wish they played this song on more tours.

Tai Shan (9th favorite) - While Alex and Geddy have famously stated that this song was a mistake and have shown their disdain for it, I really don't get the hate for it. Sure the synthesizers here are kinda cheesy and the music is not Rush's finest, but I feel that this song actually has an atmosphere and substance, much unlike Second Nature.

High Water (8th favorite) - I've seen a lot of people say that this is the worst song on the album only second to Tai Shan, but nobody can ever tell me why. I really love the musical direction this song goes for. It isn't afraid to experiment with Hold Your Fire's styles and does a pretty good job considering all things. While this song is on the weaker side as compared to the other songs present, I still like to listen to this one.

Final verdict on the album's theme: Time moves forward. And just like all the other Rush albums, this album is timeless. With this album's unique usage of "clean" guitar tones, and poppy bass guitar, and drums that I cannot describe with words, I have really grown on this album in ways I never expected from any other. For reference, I used to really dislike this album due to my initial thoughts on its lack of substance. However, I now know that the substance that Hold Your Fire supposedly lacks has always been present, just hidden from plain sight. I have spent the past hour or so writing this up, so it will take me a little more time to do these "appreciation" posts for other albums (especially Power Windows). What are your thoughts on the album?

 

[Grace :)]

I do want to state that I have since listened to Second Nature a little more. While I am starting to think this may be better than Tai Shan, I still feel that it is one of the weakest on the album. I don't love it, but I also don't hate it.

 

[By-Tor X-1]

I plan to make a detailed comment on my rough ranking and feelings on HYF tracks within the next few days, when I have a good chance to sit down and think about it. Though I will say quickly, that like your GUP rankings, I think I also largely have a similar ranking to yours for HYF.

 

[Grace :)]

I plan to make a detailed comment on my rough ranking and feelings on HYF tracks within the next few days, when I have a good chance to sit down and think about it. Though I will say quickly, that like your PoW rankings, I think I also largely have a similar ranking to yours for HYF.

I look forward to seeing what you think of the album's content overall. I used to hate this album, until I spent some time listening to it, and now I love it so much. As for PoW, I don't think I've done rankings on that album yet, but I do plan on doing them sometime soon.

 

[By-Tor X-1]

As for PoW, I don't think I've done rankings on that album yet, but I do plan on doing them sometime soon.

Ah yeah, it was GUP we talked about, not PoW. My memory got confused for a second.

I was very mixed on HYF when I first heard it, I don't think I ever quite hated it, but I only liked half the songs at most, and was the only Rush album so far where I actually disliked songs. Of course, after repeated listenings, I grew to love it entirely as well.

 

[Grace :)]

I think the part about Hold Your Fire I love the most is the bass guitar work. It is incredibly complex compared to the other albums of the time period. I feel this fact is often overlooked, as Hold Your Fire is generally considered mediocre by passing listeners.

 

[By-Tor X-1]

Okay, like my GUP ranking, I'm just going to list the tracks in order from favorite to least favorite, with a few specific notes here and there.

Prime Mover is my favorite from HYF, followed closely by Turn The Page. Both in aspects musically and lyrically, those songs are really enjoyable to me. My third favorite would be Mission, lyrically probably one of my favorites, musically very enjoyable even though a significantly calmer song. Next is probably Lock And Key, which I'd hold a bit over Force Ten, both very musically enjoyable.

Next is Open Secrets which I think is a perfectly good song, just hard to compete with some of the other songs on the album. Musically it's good, I suppose it's the lyrics that don't fully work for me, but I do like this song, and it has grown on me a lot over the years. This is one I wish they played live but never did. I completely agree with you that it sounds like they were still influenced by the Power Windows era when writing it, which I think is why I rank it so highly, with PoW being a contender for my favorite 80s album.

Followed closely is Time Stand Still which is kind of a toss up with Open Secrets, lyrically very strong, enjoyable musically but I can't quite hold it over the songs I listed already. Next is High Water, quite a strange song but I find it really relaxing and has its own mood, and I can say the same for Tai Shan, which I'd rank next (yes I think Tai Shan is a good song!), both of these seem transport your mind into another place.

Then last is undoubtedly Second Nature, a song I relate to thematically, but the way the lyrics are written I always thought comes across quite whiny/cheesy. Musically it didn't quite grab me either, not necessarily bad but it was pretty basic in my opinion. It was one of the very few Rush songs I'd always hit the skip button for, which I don't do anymore, but it was a hard one for me to swallow.

I said it earlier in this thread, Hold Your Fire was the first Rush album where I didn't quickly grow to like everything after several repeated listens. When I first heard it, I think I only liked four songs, and the rest I thought were a total bore. Though I didn't give up because with my past experiences I knew that repeated listening is always beneficial when it comes to learning to enjoy music. So yes, I think Hold Your Fire is a solid album. I personally think it is one of their last two albums that I can enjoy in totality without at least one sleeper song (even though Second Nature pretty much is, I guess I'm used to it at this point). I pretty much tie it with Presto which I love the same amount and have very similar experiences and feelings with. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy all the albums that came after Presto, some more than others, but overall they aren't albums I have the urge to play in their totalities as much as Presto and prior.

I also fully agree with you about the bass work. In general, my ears seem they tend to like noticing bass foremost, which wasn't the case before I started listening to Rush.

 

[Grace :)]

Okay, like my GUP ranking, I'm just going to list the tracks in order from favorite to least favorite, with a few specific notes here and there.

Prime Mover is my favorite from HYF, followed closely by Turn The Page. Both in aspects musically and lyrically, those songs are really enjoyable to me. My third favorite would be Mission, lyrically probably one of my favorites, musically very enjoyable even though a significantly calmer song. Next is probably Lock And Key, which I'd hold a bit over Force Ten, both very musically enjoyable.

Next is Open Secrets which I think is a perfectly good song, just hard to compete with some of the other songs on the album. Musically it's good, I suppose it's the lyrics that don't fully work for me, but I do like this song, and it has grown on me a lot over the years. This is one I wish they played live but never did. I completely agree with you that it sounds like they were still influenced by the Power Windows era when writing it, which I think is why I rank it so highly, with PoW being a contender for my favorite 80s album.

Followed closely is Time Stand Still which is kind of a toss up with Open Secrets, lyrically very strong, enjoyable musically but I can't quite hold it over the songs I listed already. Next is High Water, quite a strange song but I find it really relaxing and has its own mood, and I can say the same for Tai Shan, which I'd rank next (yes I think Tai Shan is a good song!), both of these seem transport your mind into another place.

Then last is undoubtedly Second Nature, a song I relate to thematically, but the way the lyrics are written I always thought comes across quite whiny/cheesy. Musically it didn't quite grab me either, not necessarily bad but it was pretty basic in my opinion. It was one of the very few Rush songs I'd always hit the skip button for, which I don't do anymore, but it was a hard one for me to swallow.

I said it earlier in this thread, Hold Your Fire was the first Rush album where I didn't quickly grow to like everything after several repeated listens. When I first heard it, I think I only liked four songs, and the rest I thought were a total bore. Though I didn't give up because with my past experiences I knew that repeated listening is always beneficial when it comes to learning to enjoy music. So yes, I think Hold Your Fire is a solid album. I personally think it is one of their last two albums that I can enjoy in totality without at least one sleeper song (even though Second Nature pretty much is, I guess I'm used to it at this point). I pretty much tie it with Presto which I love the same amount and have very similar experiences and feelings with. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy all the albums that came after Presto, some more than others, but overall they aren't albums I have the urge to play in their totalities as much as Presto and prior.

I also fully agree with you about the bass work. In general, my ears seem they tend to like noticing bass foremost, which wasn't the case before I started listening to Rush.

Nice rankings. I've decided to listen more to Second Nature, and I've begun to warm up to it a little bit more. However, I still do think it is the weakest on the album. As for your number one song, Prime Mover, I love this song to death. It is actually close to being my favorite song off the album, but it's a hard choice, as Turn the Page has some of the most complex musicianship out of this era (Geddy has to sing, play keyboards, foot pedals, and do incredibly complex bass lines). I think that is the only reason I hold it over Prime Mover: simply because of how intricate and complex it is. And yeah, I never understood why Tai Shan got so much hate. I feel that both Tai Shan and High Water are misunderstood (they are more instrumental and atmospheric).

 

[By-Tor X-1]

I thought it would be fun to revisit these threads all this time later, and see how much has changed.

New Ranking (today in August 2023):
Prime Mover, High Water, Mission, Turn The Page, Force Ten, Tai Shan, Lock And Key, Open Secrets, Time Stand Still, Second Nature

Old Ranking (post above from April 2022):
Prime Mover, Turn The Page, Mission, Lock And Key, Force Ten, Open Secrets, Time Stand Still, High Water, Tai Shan, Second Nature

I've been listening to this album again an unreal amount of times lately. High Water has gone way up in my estimation, and I almost want to rank it first but I just can't dethrone Prime Mover. Tai Shan I've also grown to really love, I've always like it, but the mood/feel of it really does something for me when listening. There's really nothing wrong with this song. I almost put it over Force Ten, it's nearly a tie, but I can't quite do so. Lock And Key and Open Secrets are really close too, and I think I'm comfortable placing them as it is, nearly another tie. Mission remains my solid third favorite, that song has always been close to me lyrically. Turn The Page is about the same as well, but I guess I really do prefer Mission and High Water over it now. I hate that I have Time Stand Still so low, but that doesn't mean I don't care for it anymore, I just really prefer the other songs more. I could put TSS above Open Secrets, but that song is a bit more fresh to listen to with less burn out. Second Nature, while I used to think was one of Rush's worst three songs ever, I actually quite like now, the song is quite good but the intro really does feel meh. I also still stand by what I said about the lyrics to the song, good message but comes across a bit cheesy.

 

[Grommet2112]

My favorites as of 08/30/2023...
1. Time Stand Still
2. Force 10
3. Open Secrets
4. Lock and Key
5. Turn The Page
6. Mission
7. Second Nature
8. Tai Shan
9. High Water
10. Prime Mover

 

[By-Tor X-1]

@Grommet2112 Interesting how our lists are almost a reverse of each other.